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March 2008

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darkness

Fluffy Snape -- Why? (rant)

Okay, this is something I just don't get. I was reading a story the other day, and it's an excellent story, so I'm going to leave the title out: I'd hate to be giving bad press to a generally good story.

The problem was the end, and I've seen this particular end on many, many Hermione/Snape stories, so, again, the particular story that made me write this is unimportant.

Snape asks Hermione to marry him, they get married, and have a child (or two, or three), and suddenly, he turns into goo-goo ga-ga dad.

I don't get it. If you like warm, fuzzy types, why are you writing about Snape? If you like Snape, why are you turning him into a goo-goo ga-ga dad? Why?

Snape is dark. He's sarcastic. He refuses to let go of past grudges even worse than Harry does. He hates clumsiness. He hates messes and mistakes. He hates being made fun of and has little sense of humor when it comes to that sort of thing (think Lupin and the vulture-grandmother-Snape or the insults on the Marauder's map).

Now, I'm not saying that if Snape ever had a kid, that he wouldn't love the child or be a good parent... but I don't think he'd turn into goo-goo ga-ga dad either. I think he'd be proud of the child's achievements, but also have impossibly high standards. He'd be frequently frustrated and snap at the child, too. He'd probably be somewhat distant, unsure exactly how to act, but sure not how to act... Given the wrong circumstances, he could be a horrible and abusive father. Given the right ones...

Well, yes, I can see him changing and eventually becoming a very loving father. But you have to show this! You can't just go from dark!Snape to lovingfather!Snape! You can't be telling a wonderfully intense, difficult, and amazingly good story about the Snape I know and then stick on this quick ending where he turns into Fluff-Dad.

The "good father" story would have to begin WITH THE BIRTH OF THE CHILD, to give the story ample time to really show the changes taking place.

But no, no... We have to make sure to give Snape and Hermione the exact happy ending that we want to have in our own lives, marriage and children included. Never mind that Snape is not particularly well-suited to having children.

At least that's my take on why. And it's not a good reason. If Mary Sues (i.e. wish fulfillment characters) are wrong, well, then surely wish fulfillment endings involving Fluffy Snape are equally wrong.
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Comments

Without having read the actual story you are talking about I would say that Snape going all goo is not too far fetched. I have seen the most jaded asshat become all soft over THEIR child when they couldn't give a rat's ass about anyone else on the planet. Plus this reminds me of all the yuppy types that as soon as they breed, they become interested in the future of the world around them since now THEY have a vested interest in it.

But like I said not having read the story who knows what the author was trying to work out. Most likely you are totally correct. Sometimes we want a happy ending even if it sacrifices the whole integrity of the work.

I also don't think that Snape always has to be polarized into good versus bad. Sometimes just like real humans he could just be indifferent. Or possibly having had the upbringing he did would strive very much to NOT inflict that on his own child. It really is not a matter of being a goo-goo type Dad as much as the story might just lack depth of character development. I can see where given time and enough growth Snape could become most anything. I think that is why I like the character so much. He has potential to do good, bad or anything in between. It's the unpredictable nature that interests me.

But most likely your assessment if probably true. Romanticized Snape is like a virus on the internet. The whole...if he just had the right woman....eeecckk. I am cringing just writing that;)

Plus I guess we all have to admit that Snape is such wonderful fantasy fodder anyway...(insert evil grin here)
I see I wasn't very clear. No, what specifically bothers me is that he goes from sarcastic Snape directly to goo-goo dad Snape with really no intervening time. Yes, there's explanation, but it's, well, explanation. I want to actually see *how* it happens. Just tacking it on the end like that is, well, jarring. So, yes, I'd agree that the problem is lack of character development. It's like, there's this whole long story in which he's almost exactly the way he is in the books, then BAM! Final chapter and he's all gooey with a few explanations as to why and how that just don't ring true.

You are completely right about the fact that he could change in that way, and I would accept it if it was adequately shone WITHIN THE STORY. I suspect that if I pointed this problem out to the author, they'd respond by saying what you did about the worst asshats going gooey over their children. I can accept that as a defense of the *theory*... but in a story it needs to be justified within the story, if there's a dramatic change in the way a character behaves on the page. And as I've said, I have seen a lot of stories do this.

I also certainly did not mean to polarize him into good or bad: that was definitely a mistake on my part.

Most of that was probably just because I was ranting. I'm not always clear-headed when irritated :)
I think it was not so much that you were not clear, as much as I was ranting as much as you were. And I agree wholeheartedly with what you were saying all alone.

I agree that for the story to work, Snape would need to "transform" within the story itself. And if the writer does not show that then the story fails. Snape could not really just change instantly with the birth of a child. A gradual or even quick change would still need to be written in the story to show how he got from the Snape we love to the gooey Daddy type.

I think a real issue is that some fic writers are taking the character of Snape and bending it to their own version of attraction without really paying any attention to the Snape that exists in the H.P. books. Snape has become something completely different and not Snape-like at all in many of the fics out there. He becomes the typical lovey-type guy and loses what actually makes Snape interesting in the first place. The writer takes the Snape out of Snape, if that makes sense. And it is my belief that people don't just change like that. There is always some sort of process involved and in a story that process needs to be written into the story itself.

And you are quite right in feeling that the change needed to be justified within the story and not just jump whole-cloth from one type of character to another without any story to support it. It is like Snape just goes to sleep and the next day wakes up as someone completely different. If the story does not actually contain any elements that "show" that he is in the process of changing or at the very least show the character thinking about it all it makes no sense. But then my opinion is that most fic out there is very bad writing at best. I think most people writing it just want to put their fantasies out there and pretend like it is real writing.

But then that last sentence is a rant for another day;)







I think there are people with varying degrees of "real writing". For me, it definitely is, in as much as I spend as much time editing/revising as I do writing, if not more. I also get feedback prior to submitting it, and I generally submit *FIRST* to sites that also require additional moderation. This isn't as strict/stringent as really getting something published, but I consider it an in between step. It has gotten me somewhat used to the process, even if it's 100 times easier than the real thing.

That said, there are a lot of people who don't like moderated sites because they feel they should be able to post whatever they want. I honestly don't understand why they don't want additional filters between themselves and the public to avoid putting something ridiculous out there, but ... Either that, or they think they're so amazing that any comments to the contrary would be wrong... In either case, I think you're right about it being "pretend".

I've read one article that says that writing fan fiction hurts authors because they get hooked on all the feedback and don't ever improve their craft. I can see this as a potential danger, but I don't think it is necessarily true of all authors. In my case, I think it has helped me a lot, both in terms of getting a spine about sending stuff out and in terms of improving my writing in general.

Of course, all my writing does have an element of my own fantasies, or I wouldn't get enough out of it to make it worth the work ;)

(Anonymous)

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